Recruiting across different generations is more complex—and more important—than ever before. With four generations in the workplace, understanding what drives each group is no longer optional, it’s essential.
In this episode, you’ll learn how recruiting strategies are evolving with generational shifts. Our host and CEO Porschia, alongside our guest Jonathan Sheppard, share powerful insights on what different generations expect from employers—and how recruiters and hiring managers can adapt to attract and retain top talent.
They also discuss how generational stereotypes affect hiring decisions, why personalization is key, and how organizations can use culture, communication, and empathy to build bridges between age groups.
Jonathan Sheppard is the President and CEO of J. Sheppard Associates and a passionate advocate for intergenerational collaboration. With over 20 years of experience in executive legal recruiting, Jonathan also leads JSA Advisory Services, helping firms rethink how they approach recruiting and culture across age groups.
What you’ll learn:
- Why recruiting across different generations requires more personalization than ever
- How generational stereotypes impact hiring decisions and team dynamics
- Key trends in what Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Boomers are looking for in a workplace
- What “micro-targeting” is and practical tips for recruiters to better understand and connect with candidates of all ages
- How organizations can improve culture to attract and retain multi-generational talent
As a thank you for listening to this episode of the Career 101 Podcast, we are sharing our FREE master class – Career 911: Solving the Top 5 Challenges Executives and Professionals Have! It’s a training based on solving the common problems our clients have experienced to reach their goals. You can get access to the master class here!
Resources:
- Episode Transcript
Porschia: [00:00:00] Hello, I’m Portia Parker Griffin, and I wanna welcome you to the Career 1 0 1 Podcast, a place for ambitious professionals and seasoned executives who want an edge in their career. We’re talking about all of the things you were never taught or told when it comes to career growth, development, and change.
Now let’s get into it.
The, today we are talking about recruiting trends of different generations with Jonathan Shepherd. Jonathan Shepherd is President and CEO of Jay Shepherd Associates, a full service attorney, search and executive placement firm servicing top tier, mid to large size law firms, corporations, and nonprofits.
John founded Jay Shepherd Associates in January of 2000 to place lateral partners, associates, and executives across the legal landscape. [00:01:00] In January, 2025, John launched JSA advisory services, facilitating conversations and best practices. Amid an improving intergenerational communication and collaboration beyond his search business and being a generational advocate.
John also enjoys working on behalf of various charities on issues he is passionate about. Hi John. How are you today?
Jonathan: Hi, Portia. How’s it going?
Porschia: It’s going well and we are excited to have you with us to discuss recruiting trends of different generations. But first we wanna know a little more about you.
So tell me about 7-year-old John. I.
Jonathan: 7-year-old John. He was probably a handful for his mother. You know, always out with the old, I grew up in a neighborhood where the next oldest kid was three years older, so I was always playing sports with those kids and got better at them because of that. But probably created issues for my parents [00:02:00] as a 7-year-old with a 10 year old’s mentality.
Porschia: So what did a 7-year-old John wanna be when he grew up?
Jonathan: Interestingly, I wanted to be an attorney because I thought they helped people, but I also wanted to be a rodeo clown because I also thought they saved people. I. I think there’s a lot of follow up. We can go, there’s a lot, lot of time on the psychiatrist’s couch there for those two.
Porschia: Yeah. There’s a lot of different directions we can go with that, but I think you ended up, you know, close to the attorney world there. Yeah. Tell us about some highlights or pivotal moments in your career before you started your own firm.
Jonathan: I guess the most pivotal moment came when I was first hired into the industry.
I was 19 years old. Financial aid in those times was not as prevalent as it was now as it is now. And I was thinking about leaving school and going into the workforce. And a girl I was dating, her boss was the owner [00:03:00] of a regional recruiting company. And we were guests of theirs. I, I live on Long Island in New York, and they, we were guests of theirs at their house in West Hampton.
And he interviewed me on the beach and he said, you know, do you think you could sell? And I said, somewhat. He said, recruiting services. I said, what’s that? You know, and, you know, gave me an opportunity. I, you know, and it, it worked out great. I fell into a business that suited my personality. I was very fortunate.
I had a couple of really, really good mentors early in the game. And just learned to work hard and treat people well. And you know, that to me, that that entire time was the pivotal time in my career. But I only know that looking back.
Porschia: Yeah.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Porschia: So what motivated you to start your own firm?
Jonathan: Well, I had I worked for that regional firm in the eighties, and then that company was sold to a national staffing company, and two people came out of there in the early 90.
And they asked me to [00:04:00] join them. I did, I helped them grow their legal business to about 14 million a year in revenue. And it felt like the only challenge left was to try it on my own. So I at the end of 99 resigned, I’d written a business plan for a recruiting company and went to the small business administration and got a loan, put every dime I had in, and just never looked back.
And I, you know, people said to me, Porsche, they said, oh, you know, you can do great. You can make so much money and all that. And I said, you know, for me, that wasn’t the driving force. The driving force for me was to control my own destiny. Was was to tell my own story in the way I wanted to tell it, in the manner I wanted to do it, and that really was the biggest blessing for me.
Porschia: Wow. Yeah, we have a whole series on entrepreneurship on this podcast and people making that decision right, to start their own business, it’s it can be very difficult for people and everyone has their own story around that, so love to hear that. So we’ve talked about the [00:05:00] multi-generational workplace.
On the podcast book for an episode 1 0 1, but before we dig into recruiting trends, I wanna know why do you think understanding the multi-generational workplace is important?
Jonathan: Oh, it’s super important now, more than ever. It’s always been important. But really when the market tanked in oh eight and oh nine was the seminal change.
It was the ascension of the millennial generation and they were the first generation to come along that didn’t want to do it the way the previous generations did. And it created all kind of, all kinds of angst with people. You know, everything from I want an open floor plan to working, to, I want more business casual attire.
And it just kind of accelerated from there. What I find is the most important thing about the four generations, the four dominant generations working together is if you know the need set. Of each of those generations, and it’s different among all four generations. Then as an [00:06:00] employer, you can address those things.
I, I use the word microtargeting with, I, I live mostly in the law firm space, so I’m talking to managing partners of firms in my search business and some executive committee members, and I tell them, you know, used to be. That you micro targeted partners or groups. Now you have to micro target every employee.
And I used the example at a round table I did last summer for a group of firms that I did a search a number of years ago for a cyber partner for a firm, and they ended up losing out on my candidate. He ended up going to another firm, and the magic partner said to me, what was our problem? What, what do you think the issue was?
I’m like, that’s easy. You shook his hand, but you didn’t wrap your arms around him. You didn’t make him feel like you wanted him to be a part of the success here at the firm. Now that’s the way it is with associates, support staff, the person answering the phones, and everyone else. It’s different now and people wanna be acknowledged for who they are in the generation [00:07:00] they’re in.
Porschia: So I had a lot of thoughts as you were talking. John, I’m a millennial, so I graduated from undergrad in the recession. So coming into the, the workforce at that time, you know, that was all I knew, but I did notice that everyone started talking about millennials and I didn’t know, you know, if that was something that kind of happened with every generation or if it was something that was kind of new and, and novel.
At that point. So I wanna dig a bit more into the need sets and the microtargeting, but first many of our listeners know that there are stereotypes or generalizations made about members of each generation. So in your opinion, what are some effects of generational stereotypes in the workplace?
Jonathan: Oh, it’s I, I use the, I use the phrase generationally judgemental.
Everybody’s generationally judgmental. People see this, the, the picture of me and they assume, well, he is an old [00:08:00] guy. He doesn’t know technology. He doesn’t know how I feel as a millennial or even a genzer. And then they get to talking to me and they hear my belief system because that my, my view of intergenerational reality is a belief system.
And. They say like, where did you come from? People your age don’t talk like you. And I said, yeah, no, I know they don’t. But if you can figure out not only who everyone else is, if you could figure out who you are and the stereotypes that are being thrown at you, you know, like you as a millennial Porsche, you know, there’s a whole group of stereotypes.
Everything from the things I mentioned earlier about group settings. You know, one of the things I hear about millennials, oh, they all got a trophy in little League. They all want participation trophies. They all want a pat on the back. Well, that’s not necessarily true among all of them. It may be true among a portion of them, but the stereotypes that exist are things that always need to be broken because the what you’re really looking for, you’re looking for high performers.
That’s [00:09:00] really what you’re looking for.
Porschia: Yeah, I love that. And I think to your point, the high performers might look a little different or have some different traits because they’re in different generations. But yeah, I really like that. That point that you mentioned, so you have a lot of recruiting and staffing expertise, I’ll say.
Tell us more about the recruiting trends of different generations that you see on a regular basis.
Jonathan: Well, I can tell you that the fault line right now seems to be the two and a half younger generations against the older generation and a half, you know, the younger Gen Xers down through the millennials and the Gen Zs and the Boomers and the older Gen Xers.
And the differences are, you know, predominantly that people don’t want to, people wanna do interesting work, they wanna do it with good people, they wanna do it at a fair wage, but then they want to go home. And they wanna have a life, and they don’t wanna be defined by what they do for a living, unlike the [00:10:00] boomers like me, where you were defined that way and they want a different experience.
And when you layer that on top of now for the first time in maybe three work generations, people have different choices. So if you don’t let me and my belief system be here, I’m gonna go work over there because they’re gonna allow it. They’re going to, you know, return to work was just a symptom of everything that was going on.
It’s not the issue. But, you know, I had a international, one of the biggest law firms in the world reach out to me and they said, we can’t get our associates to come in. We the, our first years. I’m like, why not? That’s your fault. What do you mean? Well, the partners who’s supposed to be training ’em. In Marthas Vineyard, you know, Hilton Head, you know, or something like that.
And they’re expecting the young people to be in, and they call that training. Training is really being in the office with them one-on-one and really making ’em feel, again, like they’re a part of things. That’s what they want. You know, not [00:11:00] everybody is stereotypical of their generation. It’s just not true.
Porschia: Yeah. So. You mentioned Microtargeting before. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on Microtargeting when it comes to recruiting.
Jonathan: Well, from the employer perspective. Obviously people have to have subject matter expertise no matter what the job is, no matter what. You know, I happen to live in the legal space, but you know, in any industry they have to have a certain level of expertise.
But what are the other traits? You know, are they team players? Are they people that are motivated to become more? I. I dropped a video on LinkedIn last week on on workflow. Everybody is, is worried about workflow. It’s not getting done. And you know, the, the older generation say, my people are never available via email at four 30 on a Friday when I send them a piece of work.
And my response was, that’s your fault. Because if it’s everything is a five alarm fire at four 30 on a [00:12:00] Friday, and they get the email that you forwarded from the client who sent it to you on Tuesday. They’re gonna say, what are you doing to my life? You know, if you manage your workflow a little better, then as you micro-target new employees in your recruiting, you can tell them, this is the experience you’re gonna have here.
We’re gonna stick to it. We’re not going to blindside you with work at the 11th hour. Yeah, there’s always something. You know that a client is gonna need the next day and all of that. But as a normal course of the way we do business, we’re not interested in doing that. We communicate better. So as firms recruit, you really want people that buy into that.
I know we’re gonna talk a little later about culture and, and everything like that, and it really does tie into that from the candidate perspective. Why wouldn’t you wanna work for a firm or a company that reflects your personal values? And they could be values. You know, about how you get your work accomplished, what the reporting structure of your job is.
It could be things like that. It could be esoteric things [00:13:00] like, I like the office space that we have that has more plants and windows and, you know, I have a defined workspace. One of the things that I find that Gen Z asked me about, do I have my own office? And companies. And firms, they blanch at that.
And they’re like, what do you mean they want their own office? They’re gonna be on TikTok all day. And I, I tell ’em, no, you know that what this generation wants to do, they wanna do their work, and then they want to go home. So they wanna focus, you know, that’s really what they want. And you have to learn to trust them to do that.
Porschia: I think that’s a great example and I wanna go back to something that you touched on earlier. Do you think candidates in different generations wanna be treated differently?
Jonathan: I think everybody wants to be treated as an individual. I. I, I really think that’s what it is. You know, I talk to people all the time, every conversation I have, it doesn’t matter where you are in your career, it has to work for you and your [00:14:00] family, whatever that’s defined as at a particular moment in somebody’s life.
You know, we were talking earlier about need sets. You know, if you’re a person starting out. In corporate America, you know, your post-college, post-graduate school, post law school, maybe you just met the love of your life. Maybe you get married and you’re about to start a family. Well, that’s one needs set.
If you’re the sandwich generation where you have teenagers and aging parents, you have a different needs set. If you’re at the end of your career, you have a different need set. So I talk to candidates about like, what is it that you want? What is it that’s happening? Your professional life. Yeah, you’re supposed to be able to do the work, but what are you looking for?
As far as, that’s why I talk about the generationality of work. It’s not just intergenerational communication and collaboration as I talk to people about in the workplace, it’s like, what else feeds you? And as an employer, what type of human beings do you want? You know, it’s, they should all be subject matter experts, but they should all be good human beings.[00:15:00]
Porschia: So what are some of the biggest mistakes you’ve seen recruiters make when recruiting people in different generations?
Jonathan: I think that recruiters one of the things that the, the intergenerational conversation has done for me has shrunk the age gap between me and everybody else. Because they just view me as, I had one candidate say to me, she’s probably 33 or something like that.
She said, John, you are like the cool uncle. And I said to her, you know what? That’s a great her name was Jordana. I’m like, that’s a great place for me to wind up. I said, because then I’m a threat to nobody. I’m not some like guy that you think you can’t relate to. You know, I’m just the guy trying to help you find a job.
I said, and she said, yeah, you’re not even trying to be me, but boy, do you get me? And I was like, that’s like one of the nicest compliments that anybody could ever make. Now conversely, somebody who’s been a partner at a big law law firm for 15 years, they’re gonna be in a different place and they’re gonna be like, Hey Shepherd, I wanna make sure that you know what you’re [00:16:00] doing.
Like, you know, I have these aging parents, I have other responsibilities. I don’t necessarily want to be at an office. 24 7 anymore. So how do I address that? How do my clients get handled? You know, and all of that. You have to break it down to everybody individually.
Porschia: Mm-hmm. So. When you are in conversations with other recruiters and they are, you know, maybe venting about issues with candidates of different generations I’ll share one real example.
Last night I was speaking for the Palm Beach County SHRM chapter and something that came up with a lot of the recruiting professionals was that they tend to be ghosted. By
candidates. Mm-hmm. Ghosted by candidates of specific generations, which I’m sure you could guess. So if you, you know, we’re having a conversation with a recruiter that said, you know, Hey John, I’m having, you know, [00:17:00] issues and challenges with, you know, candidates of different generations.
What, how would you help them, I guess.
The Career 1 0 1 Podcast is brought to you by Fly High Coaching, where we help our clients soar to their full potential executives and leaders are setting out to achieve their company goals, but without the right support. It can be difficult, if not impossible. Employee performance, productivity, and company culture all affect organizational revenue and profits.
We offer customized consulting, coaching, and training solutions and can serve as your external talent development partner. Check us out on our website, fly hi coaching com.
Jonathan: What I would say is, first of all, everybody ghosts, don’t lump ’em all into one or two generations. ’cause everybody is afraid. Nobody wants the confrontation. Nobody [00:18:00] really wants, you know, to have to face something head on. There are occasional candidates that ghost me.
You know, it happens. But there are also, you see stories in the news of firms ghosting candidates, you know, and, you know, I’m constantly cha chasing people, you know, for answers. And I tell all of my candidates the same thing. The two things you can count on for me is, is communication and closure. If the firm doesn’t wanna meet you, I’m gonna tell you so, but if I send you an email or a text and I need an answer to a question and you don’t respond.
You are hurting yourself, that that’s really what’s happening. So to recruiters that have this happen to ’em, you know, minimize it. They’re always gonna be the occasional person that just doesn’t handle things the right way. But don’t let that get in the way. If you have a preponderance of people who are ghosting you, then you need to look in the mirror and say why.
Porschia: Mm-hmm. Another topic that came up with some of the recruiters I think kind of [00:19:00] ties into something else you were talking about. So how can a recruiter really get a good sense of the needs set of a specific candidate, you know, and when they have these candidates across generations as well,
Jonathan: Talk to him about, you know.
When they say, you know, ask questions like what’s important to you and leave it open-ended. Let them answer whether or not, or think, whether or not you’re talking about their professional search or their personal life, because that kind of question. There are a lot of people that wanna open up and say, you know, what’s most important to me is that I have twin seven year olds and I gotta take ’em to school in the morning.
Well, if they lead with that, you know that it’s very important to them. You know, if they lead with all of I, you know, for me it’s about the money. You know, I only wanna get paid more money, well then you know that that’s kind of how they’re wired. And as the conversation unfolds, they will hit you with [00:20:00] various things that you’ll be able to kinda see and build around, and then bring them to a place of, or a place where you understand them better, I guess is a good way to say it.
You know, as a recruiter.
Porschia: I, I love your point about those open-ended questions that could be taken personally or professionally.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Porschia: So what are some tips or recommendations that you would give a recruiter or HR professional who wants to improve their recruiting of different generations?
Jonathan: Be open to being uncomfortable about yourself.
You know, I, I use the phrase with me, pasty, middle-aged, white guy, you know, and people laugh and, but it, it makes ’em feel a little more relaxed. You know, I, and I tell people stories like I, you know, I lived in New York City up until about eight years ago. Whenever I would get in a cab, I would ask the driver how they pronounce their first name, if it was a name that was, you know, from another culture.
Mm-hmm. Just [00:21:00] by this package of me. Asking that question, they have an appreciation that you’ve extended yourself. So if you’re a recruiter, you should be extending yourself. It’s okay to say, you know, I’m, fill in the blank. I’m not of your generation and, but I have an understanding of what you go through because I have a nephew, niece, father, daughter, you know, whatever it happens to be.
So, you know, but I wanna help, you know, help me understand you better. What’s important to you. You know, educate me and I, I am open to it. I, I tell people, you know, I, I’ve been very fortunate that I fell into a business that suited my personality. Sure. But it also had to do with the way I was brought up.
I grew up in a lower middle class family. My father worked night shift of the loading dock of the US Post Office in New York City. My father worked 4:00 PM to midnight every six nights a week, and I was brought up Jewish and my mother would’ve Passover Seder, and half the table was family and half the [00:22:00] table were the husbands the, the guys and the wives of the guys that my father had worked with.
And they were all black and Hispanic guys. So I was exposed to. Culture and food and music that was different than me. I was brought up to be more interested. And I still am more interested in people that are different than me. I already know enough people that look like me and have had my experience. I want, I’m more interested in others.
There was something out last year, I, I saw an interview on, I think it was on CNN or M-S-N-B-C with somebody from the Real Race Project. And it was, can you define yourself in six? You should be able to define yourself in six words. And I got to thinking about it. And my six words were interested in people different than me.
So if you do that, if you take a genuine interest in people, and yeah, it’s a, it’s good business, it’s good in your recruiting, but it also shows that you’re a human being and you’re trying to treat them as a human being. And when you treat people like that, again, just like the back of that taxi cab asking somebody’s name, [00:23:00] when you extend yourself like that.
People kind of exhale, they relax, and then they’re gonna tell you more about who they are, what they do, and what they bring to the table. And you’re gonna be more effective in placing that person I.
Porschia: Yeah, I think that that whole mindset that you have of, you know, being interested in other people really it sounds like it kind of shapes your perspective as a recruiter, right.
And then a hundred percent you know, process that you use as a recruiter. So. That. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. Another topic that we’ve discussed on the show in episode 71 was company culture. What are your thoughts on how a company’s culture can impact their recruiting efforts? I.
Jonathan: Oh, this is a big one that I deal with every day, every day.
Company culture, everybody. What does everybody have? We have work-life balance, right? Every firm, we have a balanced environment. We’re, we’ll give you work-life balance. First of all, [00:24:00] there’s no such thing as work-life balance anymore. And in law, I’m sure. Yeah, definitely not law firms. I did a, I did a a reel last year, I think it was up on Instagram.
It’s not about work life balance, it’s about work life rhythm. How does your job fit into the rest of your life? And is your employer in the game with you on that? Trying to create the kind of environment where you can do that. And then on top of that, of course they’re creating an environment of equality, inclusion, you know I have one law firm client.
That they did a survey to the associates, and the associates said, we love it here. We’re getting good training and mentoring. We wish we had a little more say in things before they became policy. I. So what did this firm do? They didn’t say, oh, well, we’ll let you know. They created a spot on the management committee for the associates.
The associates now elect onto the committee every two years, an associate who [00:25:00] voices their concerns. They heard what their people said and they tried to fix it. And firms that are trying, I I say this all the time, you know, people give you a lot more credit for trying than actually succeeding. Mm-hmm. You know, and I, I, I deal with a lot of firms.
You’ll go to their website and it’s a very homogenous group of people, you know? And, you know, how do you convince somebody who’s unlike that homogenous group of people, whatever it is, that they’re a good place? Well, are those people, agents of change? Are they a group of people that believe in people not like them, they just haven’t hired a lot of them yet?
You know, those are the types of things. And then Yeah. You know, you know that. Hybrid work to a certain degree. You know, really the kind of communication one. I, I was brought into Louis Vuitton to talk to some of their people. I’m gonna probably be doing something with them on, they’re trying to get people in their finance silo to be more interested in taking advantage of resources they have to improve their [00:26:00] careers to learn more, get different certifications.
Well, the fact that you’re trying to do that, it speaks to people. It’s not always about like, oh, we’ve set up this entire new state of the art. You can feel good about our culture. It’s the culture happens every day, and as long as the people at the top feed that and recognize it and support it, then as, as a, as a potential employee, you can walk in and say, okay, I could see this being the place I stay for the next chapter of my career.
So culture is an ongoing thing.
Porschia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I completely agree. And then to your point, I mean, we are talking about company culture, but you know, with your expertise in the legal industry, there’s also a culture in certain industries. And when you said work-life balance, you made me think back, and this was pre pandemic, so it was a handful of years ago now, but on the individual career coaching side, John, [00:27:00] we had.
A very large amount of attorneys wanting to change careers because of that work-life balance that you mentioned. I heard a lot of. I could give my life to the firm for 10 years and not make partner. I heard a lot of women say, I just realized I can’t have a family and be working for a law firm.
Some of them were trying to get into the private sector you know, and out of the like law firm, but you know, into corporate. So what are. I guess your thoughts on work life balance, as you know, an industry, when you think about the legal industry, when you’re talking to candidates, right, who might have these unrealistic expectations or what their firm thinks is unrealistic, if that, yeah, and
Jonathan: it goes in both directions, right?
Mm-hmm. Right. It goes, it’s like, oh, I only wanna be a hundred percent remote. Right? Uhhuh and, or, you know, we want ’em in the office five days a week. Mm-hmm. You have to, you really have to communicate effectively [00:28:00] what you want. The, the beauty of where we’re at in the marketplace for, for those people that you mentioned, people having a family or people giving 10 years and not making partner, they now have other options because there are firms out there that’s, they’re not lockstep, they’re not, you know, they’re all trying to find the key to really unlocking, you know, basically employee satisfaction, right?
Give people skin in the game. If there’s always gonna be a high performer in your business. That doesn’t come into the office five days a week. That was the way it was before the pandemic. It’s nothing new. So you have to kind of know those things, but you can create environments where you can get the work accomplished.
This large firm that reached out to me that I mentioned earlier, I said to the managing partner and to the people on the, they call it the, the Regional Management Committee. It’s nine people responsible for 6,000 employees across the US and Canada. And I leaned into the camera and I said, you guys are a huge law firm.
You [00:29:00] can’t figure this stuff out. And they laughed. And I said, no, that’s why we need somebody like you from the outside. And I said, it’s really about communicating what you want, then communicating back to you, coming to an agreement on where it stands, and then en and then enforcing it. And what is absolute in the law firm space.
And it’s very true in every other business. Pia, it’s probably true in yours too. Yours also is when the clients of the firm get the result they want. They’re gonna pay your bill and they’re gonna give you more work. Right now you have to reverse engineer everything else. If you had two partners and six associates on a deal for a client, well maybe now it’s three partners and four associates.
And you divvy up the work differently. You can do those things. And that’s why, you know, people talk about, you know, everything that’s going on generationally and like, hopefully this will come to an end. It never ends. We’re at the beginning of a new way of doing business. Why? Because you have two and a half younger generations that wanna do it one way.
And the older generation and a half that’s holding on saying, we [00:30:00] made money for all these years in our careers this way. But you know what? If you don’t change, then other firms are gonna just blow past you.
Porschia: I completely agree. I completely agree. And I’m sure you, you know, have to talk to the firms that you work with about this.
But I tell our, our business clients, so executives, managers, directors, those with a team of direct reports, I let them know that you’re top performers. They all have an inbox of LinkedIn messages from recruiters trying to steal them away from you. Probably on a monthly basis. They’re getting multiple messages.
So you have to be cognizant of, you know, the culture you know what you’re saying, how you’re saying it, all of that because. Particularly the top performers, they have other people talking to them.
Jonathan: Yeah. And it’s not just recruiters, it’s people at other firms. It’s [00:31:00] people in the same practice area that know how good they are.
Mm-hmm. And other firms, you know, again, don’t shake their hand, wrap your arms around them. That’s really what it’s about. You know, there are many firms out there that are like, well, we’re us. Why wouldn’t you wanna work for us? Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, I’m like, well, you know, there’s a lot of other guys and girls like you out there.
I know that’s a, you know, not something you really want to hear from a recruiter, you know? And, but it, the truth of the matter is, is that you, you need to stay engaged now with your people. You need to show them that. The time is different, you know, and, and it’s hard because people that are running law firms and other big businesses, what happens when it finally gets to their desk and it’s a five alarm fire, is when they’ll bring that key high performer in and say, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
We don’t want your 3 million in revenue going out the door. Mm-hmm. What’s wrong? Right. When had you asked that question two months ago in a different way of saying, Hey, how’s it going? Is [00:32:00] there anything that we could be doing to help you out? They wouldn’t even take that call, whether it’s from a recruiter or another firm or whatever it is.
’cause they know that they have it. Good.
Porschia: I couldn’t agree more, John. Couldn’t agree more. So tell us more about your business.
Jonathan: Well, my business you know, I do attorney search partners lateral partners for big law and mid-size law firms, people with books of business. I do some associate placements.
And then the JSA advisory services that you mentioned. Earlier was an outgrowth of my beliefs in multi-generational conversations that have been going on in my world for my entire career. I feel like the world is catching up to me a little bit. Mm-hmm. It’s been very interesting that the advisory business is taking off the way it is because firms really do need an outside voice.
And it was funny, I had one managing partner of a very large firm say to me, so are you a consultant? And I said, no, I hate, I don’t like the word, you know? Mm-hmm. I, I always thought consultants [00:33:00] came in. I said, I’m not the guy that’s gonna come in and give you, like, do a survey mm-hmm. And interview three or four people and then tell you what to do.
What I wanna know is what are your pain points? And then I want to come in, in person, meet with groups of people, and show ’em the passion I have and the things that they can do. To just turned back toward one another. ’cause that’s really what we’re talking about. Very interesting. A very quick story. I have my daughter-in-law’s, a paralegal and she did something for me a number of months ago and I sent her a text that said, boots the house down.
And boots the house down is for people listening that don’t know what it is. It’s a, a phrase that came out of the drag community, and if a drag queen did a really good performance, they all wear boots so that instead of bringing the house down, it was boots the house down. So she texted me back. She wrote, slay.
How do you know what that phrase means? And I laughed. I said, because I can read, you know, I saw, you know, I was reading an article about it, but I turned it into a video that I posted toward law [00:34:00] firm partners. Mm-hmm. To show them that you can sometimes take a silly phrase that you just read about and you mentioned it to one of the other, you know, the younger partners or the associates in your group, and all of a sudden they see you in a different light and they say, wow, he’s trying.
He’s trying to kind of talk to me on my terms and it really is effective in do, in doing that. And I, so when I talk to people about, you know, moving ahead and moving back toward one another, that’s what it’s about. Part of my cost versus value, value conversation with people who are gonna pay my bill on the advisory side is if I can get your partners to turn back toward one another and bring the associates with ’em and everybody, bills one to two more hours a week because billable hours are down everywhere.
You’re gonna make X dollars by X number of attorneys, by how many clients? By your, your hourly rate. It’s gonna be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. And that’s the value proposition. [00:35:00]
Porschia: I love it. I love it. Very well said. And I did really enjoy your distinction between the advisor and the consultant.
You know, there are, there are different roles. There’s a book I’m sure you’ve heard of called the Trusted Advisor, which is. Really big. But I, I love that distinction. You know, we are, we do organizational consulting, so we do the surveys and the assessments and all that kind of stuff that you, you don’t focus on, but I think there’s definitely a place for both.
So a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Now, John, I wanna ask you our last question that we ask all of our guests. How do you think executives or professionals can get a positive edge in their career?
Jonathan: Be who you are. Very simple. Just be who you are and, and you will find enough people who like that person, who [00:36:00] like the way you do your business, who appreciate your manner and your professionalism and your caring nature.
Just be who you are. You’re, you’re supposed to be. I, I say, you know, attorneys are good technicians. You know, they, whatever their practice area is, they’re supposed to be an expert. But the ones that really thrive and people that raise a kind of come up through the ranks are those that give a portion of themselves.
So be who you are. That’s the biggest thing.
Porschia: Well, John, you have shared a lot of wisdom with us today and I’m sure our listeners can use it to be more confident as they are working with different generations. We appreciate you being with us.
Jonathan: Well, thank you so much for having me, Pia. It’s been my pleasure.
Really.
Porschia: This episode was brought to you by the Brave Bird Career Alliance, the go-to membership [00:37:00] designed for seasoned executives and ambitious professionals with everything you need for career planning, strategy, training, and support. Thank you again for listening to the Career 1 0 1 podcast. I hope you have at least one key takeaway that you.
Can use in your own career. If you enjoyed hanging out with us, please rate, subscribe, and share this podcast. Until next time, here’s to your success.
