Last Updated on November 20, 2025 by Fly High Coaching
Culture in the workplace is more than posters; it’s daily behaviors that build trust, safety, and performance. CEO host Porschia and guest Carol Marzouk unpack how culture shows up in meetings, emails, and decisions. They keep it practical for leaders facing reorgs, layoffs, and constant change.
In this episode, you’ll learn clear steps to design culture on purpose, not by default. Carol shows why leader self-awareness must come before town halls and taglines. You’ll hear simple routines, values, “evidence checks,” and real accountability.
They also address common barriers: leadership blind spots, tolerating toxic high-performers, and gossip in uncertainty. When transforming culture in the workplace, first steps for leaders include naming the change, modeling the rules, and involving employees in defining behaviors. Then, encourage lasting change with meeting rituals, coaching, and consequence management.
Carol Marzouk, the executive lion tamer, transforms narcissists and bullies into effective leaders. Using neuroscience, she resolves root causes so teams rebuild trust, collaborate, and sustain results. She guides organizations through transitions to create measurable, lasting culture shifts.
What you’ll learn:
- How culture in the workplace drives retention, engagement, decision speed, safety, and results.
- The role of leadership in culture shifts and how leaders acknowledge change, co-create language/model behaviors, and provide daily coaching.
- The practical cadence to build culture by design, meeting rituals, values, “evidence checks,” and real accountability.
- Why focusing on observable behaviors is key to transformation as repeated habits compound into sustained performance without chasing short-term metrics.
- How to align team culture with new goals for improved trust, decision-making, accountability, and speed through clear roles and ownership.
- Ways to reduce gossip and disengagement during change by naming what’s changing, what’s not, and what happens next with frequent micro-updates.
As a thank you for listening to this episode of the Career 101 Podcast, we are sharing our FREE master class – Career 911: Solving the Top 5 Challenges Executives and Professionals Have! It’s a training based on solving the common problems our clients have experienced to reach their goals. You can get access to the master class here!
Resources:
- Episode Transcript
Porschia: [00:00:00] Hello, I’m Portia Parker Griffin, and I wanna welcome you to the Career 1 0 1 Podcast, a place for ambitious professionals and seasoned executives who want an edge in their career. We’re talking about all of the things you were never taught or told when it comes to career growth, development, and change.
Now let’s get into it.
Today we are talking about transforming culture in the workplace with Carol Marzuk. Carol is known as the executive lion tamer for her ability to transform narcissist and bullies into well-behaved. Relationship experts and she turns struggling workplaces into high performing collaborative teams with a sharp focus on addressing the root cause of dysfunction.
She helps leaders build trust, resolve conflicts, and inspire their teams to achieve [00:01:00] lasting success. Whether guiding organizations through complex transitions or strengthening leadership Carol’s expertise creates meaningful change where it matters most. Hi Carol. How are you today? Hey, I am fabulous. How are you doing?
I am doing well. I don’t know if I can top fabulous, but we’re excited to have you with us to discuss transforming culture in the workplace. But first we wanna know a little more about you. So tell me about 7-year-old Carol. Oh my
Carol: goodness. So 7-year-old Carol did not speak English and was very much afraid of this new era in her life because we had left Mexico City and starting first grade here.
In the US not knowing a word of English and being [00:02:00] told that I can’t be part of the ESL program until second grade. For a little while I had one friend and that was a goldfish in the school, in the classroom. And I remember that being a pivotal moment because I was talking to my little goldfish and I was thinking.
Hold on a second. Like, I need that now. I need the ESL. Now. I, I don’t know how I’m going to be successful. I mean, and I’m sure I wasn’t thinking these words, but, you know, how am I going to make it if I don’t get what I need, if I don’t get the tools that I need? So I ended up going to the principal. My parents couldn’t come with me ’cause they were in real estate and I knew I would have to wait too long.
So I ended up gonna the principal and making my case with a translator. And and after two tries she allowed me to go [00:03:00] to get into the program. And and that was, that was quite a moment for me ’cause there was a lot of transition. There was a lot of newness. And, and I, and I also realized like, I have to figure this out.
And, and so yeah, that was, that was pivotal for me. Yes,
Porschia: I, what I’m hearing, Carol, is that you are also very brave to go to the principal and make your case. Not once, but twice. We you know, have a lot of clients who are adults that don’t wanna try something a second time if the first time isn’t quote unquote successful to them.
And even with the language barrier, you know, make your case. So that, that says a lot about you. What did 7-year-old Carol wanna be when she grew up?
Carol: I wanted to be a family therapist slash teacher because my family I had, you know, I’m the fifth of five girls and in Mexico [00:04:00] number four and number three tried to kill me.
Literally so several times. So one of them would throw me, try to throw me out of the balcony and the ninth story. The other one would try like, you know, see if the stroller would fly with me in it and like would do weird things and I had to learn how to. Survive. But also how to manage the conflict within a household where there are five different types of crazies.
And the parents, as much as they loved us, they had their lives.
So when I. So when I had to finally, you know figure out like how to survive and then also how to help them with their own conflict, because I was always part of it. Because I was the youngest, I was always there, and so I had to learn how to get them to see. The other person’s side and all of that at a very, very young age.
So so all of that, I think really [00:05:00] helped to shape what I wanted to do and be a teacher, be a family therapist. And that was until I was actually working with kids and I was like, yeah, I can’t do it. ’cause they were abused kids. And I would come home every night crying, you know, and, and I just, I’m like, no, we can’t.
I have to work with adults.
Porschia: Well, I want to thank you for sharing that with us because, I’m sure you see this with your clients too. I have had clients who have had some you know, very deep or traumatic experiences before and you know, they can continue to affect you and then also sometimes even play out in your life and situations.
So, I wanna acknowledge you for surviving one but also, you know, becoming a, you know, coach and consultant to help other people. You know [00:06:00] now. So definitely wanna acknowledge you for that. And I, you know, I had a thought, Carol, because this kind of happened to me a little bit. I was the second girl and my dad wanted a boy.
And I don’t know if in Mexico you know, the, the preference for males is the same as it is in the us but when you said the fifth of five. Girls. I said I was the second of, of, you know girl. And I felt that. Did you happen to feel any of that in terms of hoping for a boy and, oh, it’s another girl.
You
Carol: know I, I think the reason I didn’t is because between number four and me, there were two or three miscarriages and they were all boys. And so my mom and dad I think were just like. We surrender and, and, and by the, and when I was finally born, you know, after that I think they were just happy that I was born healthy and that, you know and, but I, I don’t know if any of my other [00:07:00] sisters very interesting question if they felt that.
I’m gonna ask them that.
Porschia: Yeah, just, just my own kind of, I guess, birth order psychology mixed with something else going on here. Yeah. Yeah. I’m a psychology nerd, which I, I mentioned to you, Carol, and some of our, our listeners know that. So I wanna fast forward a little bit, Carol. I want you to tell us about some highlights or pivotal moments in your career before you started your business.
Carol: Yeah, I would say that the most pivotal moment in my career was when I was in corporate and I was in charge of the leadership and development for the whole enterprise. So for all the different businesses under the big umbrella. And and I was able to travel. We had a pretty nice wallet, so I was able to take people to different countries and do some excellent programs there.
And the. Pivotal moments were well there were two men who I [00:08:00] think every day now, so I will say that. So you know how the story ends, but Sure. The first one was six four. Very heavy Irish accent. And he would follow me everywhere. And right before, I’m about to speak, right before I’m about to work with the board of directors or the executive team or the CEO, he would pull me aside and he would say.
You are worth nothing. You bring zero value to any of this, and I don’t know why the CEO wants to work with you. He should wanna work with me. I don’t know why they wanna work with you. You have nothing. Nothing. You have nothing to bring. And and he would do a variation of this every time, but he would always say, you have zero value.
You are nothing. And. Here’s where it got interesting for me. I, [00:09:00] after I, I took this for two years. Now think about this. I’m teaching people how to address these situations and now it’s happening to me and all I do is look up at this guy. ’cause I’m five two on a good day. And so I just look up at him and I’m just shocked every time and I don’t handle it.
And after two years of that where it got to the point where I just lost so much weight, I was under so much stress from that. I saw his name and I instantly felt like throwing up and I finally, it was like, I’m such a fraud. Like, wow, what a fraud because how can I be helping these other people? But then it happens to me and I’m like, ah, let me freeze.
Right? And so that was one thing, and I’ll let you know what I did in a second there. The second guy around the same [00:10:00] time, same company, same corporation. He wanted to sleep with me and he made it very clear that if I don’t sleep with him. He was my direct boss. Mm-hmm. If I don’t sleep with him, that he’ll tell everyone that I’m, that I’m sleeping with him.
And guess who worked at the same company? My husband. And so my husband was in a totally different department. He was in the engineering department. We’re in leadership and development. And so he also had a way to make sure that my husband didn’t get promoted and didn’t, wasn’t able to succeed and maybe even get fired ’cause he’s so high up in the company.
And so he would say that to me, right? So I’m gonna tell everybody, I’m gonna make sure that Rich doesn’t get anywhere. I’m gonna, you know, all these things and. I towered under the And, and I used to be a self-defense instructor because when I was at UCLA, there were a lot of rapes and a [00:11:00] lot of, you know, so it’s like, I’m gonna protect, you know, I’m gonna protect myself.
So I became a self-defense instructor, and now this is happening to me in corporate and. Again, like pinned against the wall and just frozen, pinned against the floor and just frozen. And once again, and it was interesting because the parallel of both of these things happening to me at the same time after being at that company for a long time was weird.
It was the universe saying to me, you’ve got to switch where you are. Right? And so. And so I’ll tell you how I handled both of them. So with the first one I finally, because I did feel like such a big fraud, I finally said to him, okay, so I hear what you’re saying now tell me three things that I’m doing well.
And he [00:12:00] got so angry and he had this look of disgust on his face. Like, how dare I. Ask him that like, there’s nothing. Right? And what do you think he did?
Porschia: I would’ve, I mean, I have a few thoughts, but my first guess would be he kind of either doubled down on the fact that he didn’t think you had any value, or he just didn’t say anything at all and just kind of stormed off one of those two.
Carol: Yeah. Well, you’re actually correct on both of those. Oh, wow. Okay. So the next time he came out, actually a lot worse.
The, the next time after I said that he got a lot nastier and he tried to make me even smaller and I did it again ’cause he didn’t think I would. And so. Then he became silent and the third time and the fourth time, and then the last fifth time he was silent, he sneered and he late, gave me a look of disgust.
He never ever responded, but what he did was he [00:13:00] stopped. So finally, and then with the other guy. We were at Yale, actually, I was doing this thing with a Yale rowing coach. And we’d have the leaders come and so we were at the Omni Hotel and I opened my door like an idiot, and he comes in and there was a fruit tray because you know, the hotels give you fruit trays when you do events.
So there was a fruit train, there was a, a knife and a fork, and he took the knife. And he, he went to basically stab the apple, right? And as he was about to stab the apple, he is like, I’m done. I’m done asking. I’m done telling you this is what’s, you know. And so I said, you know what? You’re right. I think you should tell people that we sleep together.
I think that it would give me, hmm, a lot of clout. Sleeping with you. I think you should tell the world. And as far as, and I was telling my husband since it began, like [00:14:00] I was telling him since it began, but he’s an engineer and so he’s like, can’t you just like compartmentalize it? And Right. He is very practical.
And so I told him that and I said, and as far as Rich is concerned, honestly, I don’t know that he loves his job. You might be doing him a favor. So if you could get him fired or if you could make sure, you know, like, I think that might help us. And he, he just got white because I completely disarmed him.
And I mean, it took me two years though. It took me two years, and I’m not proud of that because I was literally doing the, like I was doing this, I was coaching this stuff and then I couldn’t do it for myself until I snapped out of it. So those, that I would say was a pivotal time where I just. It was like, okay, I, I’m ready to go out.
And then Chris Gardner from, from the Pursuit of Happiness, the real [00:15:00] guy. Mm-hmm. He was a friend of mine and he’s the one that said, you know what? I don’t know what you’re waiting for. Do it. And that’s when it, when it happened.
Porschia: Wow. Wow. Well, I’m sure you already know this, but you have a very powerful.
Story and testimony for people to hear. Especially women. I think most women have experienced some kind of sexual harassment if not assault you know, in the workplace or at school. So I wanna thank you for sharing that and also sharing how you found your voice in all of that. It sounds like you were, taming executive lions, definitely in corporate as well. So I’m definitely gonna assume that that was a motivator with starting your own business. So I wanna transition into talking a little bit about company culture, which I don’t know how big of a [00:16:00] transition it is because, well, I don’t wanna get into the company culture at the organization ’cause I have some thoughts on maybe how it was, but we’ll, we’ll progress on the show.
We’ve talked about company culture back in episode 71. Before we get in too deep today, I wanna know what is your definition of company culture?
Carol: Company culture. Culture to me is simply daily behaviors. It’s how we’re showing up every day.
Porschia: Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Why do you think company culture is important?
The Career 1 0 1 Podcast is brought to you by Fly High Coaching, where we help our clients soar to their full potential executives and leaders are setting out to achieve their company goals, but without the right support. It can be difficult, if not impossible. Employee performance, productivity, and company culture all affect [00:17:00] organizational revenue and profits.
We offer customized consulting, coaching, and training solutions and can serve as your external talent development partner. Check us out on our website, fly hi coaching com.
Carol: Well, if how we’re showing up every day determines. What our relationships look like and how we feel when we walk into the workplace. And actually, let’s back up how we feel when we wake up. Up to go into work or even to go to your desk at home if you’re remote. Like all of that plays into it. Do, does my manager have my back?
Are they my ally? I mean that’s, you know, one of the top factors in employee satisfaction, including manager satisfaction, is the person I report to, do they have my back? Is my relationship good? [00:18:00] And and it’s interesting because Gallup found I, I don’t know how many years ago, it was a few years ago, that 82% of managers are seen by their direct reports as lacking in the area of leadership.
And lacking in the area of being able to build and sustain relationships with them. And so that’s interesting, right? Because when you ask the managers, they’re like, oh, I think I’m really, I’m, I think I’m great at that. And so that’s where the culture kind of, you know, can get into trouble because we have our own blind spots and bias, and we think we’re great as managers, but our direct reports are like, Hey, you didn’t have my back in that conversation.
You didn’t have my back when somebody, you know, chewed me out in an email. You didn’t, you know, and, and so that’s where it can get really, [00:19:00] really wonky. Did I answer your question even?
Porschia: You did. You did. So nowadays we are hearing about constant change, right? In response to, you know, economic industry and leadership changes in organizations.
Mm-hmm. And for that reason, there are a lot of companies going through, you know, reorganizations, downsizings, and layoffs. How do you think those types of events affect culture within a company?
Carol: Well, it creates a lot of disengagement. I think that, you know, there’s a very big difference between change.
The external happening, all of the things you just mentioned, and then the psychological aspect of that. Right. The transition that’s going on internally and while everything outside, like, you know, the s and p might be down the. Tariffs are, you know, the reciprocal tariffs are coming into play, right? The unemployment rate, like [00:20:00] all of those things are happening whether we like it or not, just like covid happened.
Whether, whether some of us said yes or no, it didn’t matter. It happened, it was external. But Covid ISS a great example. You would talk to people that are like, ah, it’s not a big deal. I’m not wearing a mask. I don’t need to be wearing a mask. And then you had people that are like. Get me 20 masks, right?
Like I’m gonna wear three masks at a time. Mm-hmm. And so, right. So people were stuck in the ending of like how it used to be versus the new beginning and really getting on board with that. And then some people were somewhere in the middle, in the swamp, internally, totally lost. And the challenge with change in the workplace and in our lives is that when our leaders.
When the people that we look up to are stuck in the swamp, when they are lost, they can’t even know. They don’t know how to survive themselves. They don’t know [00:21:00] where to go, and they’re looking for any kind of guide or any kind of nuance and conversation with their leaders to say, oh, this is what’s happening, and we create all these stories that are not true.
And that’s where gossip happens. That’s where, you know, people get into negative cohorts, right? They’re trying to survive based on stories they’re making up. Because our minds need to have a story around what’s going on. So I think that where we need to focus is helping the leaders, the, and by leaders. I know leaders are across the whole organization, the executive team.
Right. The people that that we look to for information and help and guidance and leadership, we need to start there and we need to help them become self-aware as to where they’re at so that we know where, how they need to move and, and how they need to pull the people [00:22:00] forward into this new beginning instead of dragging people down.
With them disengaging more people because they’re people managers and then creating a more toxic workplace.
Porschia: Yeah. So what do you think are the core aspects of a culture change?
Carol: I think one of the key things is making sure that it’s a culture by design. And not by default. I think that if if we do what, you know, a lot of pe a lot of companies still do this, you know, we let’s the executive team, let’s get together in a room and then decide what all, like, what our culture is, what our values are, what.
And then we’re gonna create big posters and we’re gonna put ’em everywhere, and then naturally it’s gonna infuse into everybody, and then they’re going to start doing this. Right? That’s what used to happen. I, I think I, I still [00:23:00] see that happening in a lot of companies and it’s so misguided. Right, for obvious reasons.
It’s like, oh, oh, there’s a poster that says that I should be kind and you know, and, and I should be a great listener and a great leader, and all of these things. Got it. Okay, let me turn that on. Right? And now I’m gonna show up differently. Doesn’t work. And so we need to involve the people that we are asking to live.
Those daily behaviors. We need to involve them in what it should look like. Otherwise there’s no buy-in and we are just ticking a box. I think that is the primary factor.
Porschia: So this next question that I have, you’re, I think you’re already starting to answer it, but how do you think leaders can transform culture in the workplace?
Carol: So I’ll give you a great example of where, [00:24:00] where it can go wrong and then how we can fix it. So there was an actual example where the executive team said, Hey, safety, it was a construction company. Safety is one of our big core tenants, right? So let’s make sure that we tell everybody how important that is.
So we, from now on, no more meetings in the car. Nobody’s gonna take meetings in the car ’cause that’s unsafe. And so we’re gonna blast this out, right? No more meetings in the car. Not a week later, two executives said were having a meeting and they pulled in people from their teams while they were in the car.
And so it’s like, let’s just do, like, let’s live out loud a totally different thing than what we’re actually doing, right? So that’s where it goes wrong. And I think, and it, it’s not like [00:25:00] they intentionally are like, oh, let’s do the wrong thing, but I. It brings me to the answering your question, which is it’s about the self-awareness.
It’s about looking in the mirror and it’s about saying, how am I showing up with these values, with these daily behaviors? Am I asking people to show up differently than how I’m showing up? It has to start there. It has to start there, and most of us as leaders are not aware of how we show up.
Porschia: Yeah, so I definitely agree with all of that. What do you think is the next step, right? So let’s say that a leadership team is working with, you know, your firm, my firm, some other organizational, you know, consulting firm that has helped them to have that self-awareness. They know how they’re showing up. What do you think is a next step for that?
Carol: So once they are once [00:26:00] they are living what they are saying the next step is then to then have, you know, accountability around what we say we wanna be as a culture, as a firm, right? So what I have my clients do many times is at the beginning of meetings, they’ll take one core pillar. Of who we are, whether it be our values, whether it be their culture, whatever, and, and have someone talk about how they’re living it or how they’re getting their team to do it.
There are other things that you can do. I have round tables at some of my clients where there are literally talking about, okay, where are we? We decided that this was going to be who we are. Great. Where are we seeing evidence of that? And these are monthly. Where are we seeing evidence of that and where are we falling short?
What do we do about it? And so it’s having the conversation and then [00:27:00] leaving that round table with action items on what do we need to do in order to make sure that we are authentic and we are living what we are saying. And unless we continue to have those conversations and they’re real time, it’s, it’s just not gonna happen.
Porschia: Yeah, so over my years as a consultant and a coach, I’ve seen many executives and professionals really struggle with the idea of culture transformation. And I think part of it is because the concept of a culture change can seem, you know, overwhelming, scary, or. Really abstract to people. From your perspective, what are some of the biggest challenges you’ve seen executives and professionals have with culture transformation?
Carol: Well, I think you mentioned one of the biggest ones, which is themselves, their belief. Right. It’s, it’s this overwhelming inundating [00:28:00] thing and honestly, I just don’t have time for it. We have to make this revenue and we have to grow the company, and we have, and I don’t need to focus on the people stuff.
Right? Like ultimate, like, can we just talk about it another, another day? Right. And we wanna be allriches. And the, the challenge is that if we don’t deal with it before, it becomes a huge pain. When it becomes a huge pain. Now we’ve got people that are. Toxic that are spreading virus, meaning negativity and toxicity across departments.
And now you’ve got not only a brand issue, but now you’ve got a net promoter score issue and nobody wants to work there. Nobody’s gonna recommend you to their friends and family. And so I think the biggest challenge is just overcoming their belief about how daunting it can be. It doesn’t have to be daunting.
If they work with your, your firm, [00:29:00] you make it easy. They work with me. Maybe one day we could do something together. Yeah. Right. But it’s easy. It’s totally easy. And if you allow yourself and your team to be guided, it’s lit. It’s so easy, especially if you, if you do it the right way and you are not creating resistance.
So it’s, it’s really, honestly, it’s a mind shift.
Porschia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. To your point about the, the belief, you know, that it’s so much, so big and then not addressing it and avoiding it I definitely see those two challenges. So, Carol, tell us more about your business.
Carol: Aw, thank you so much. Well, I, you know, I work with folks that are really intelligent.
And many times very arrogant. And so when you’ve got the intelligence and the arrogance, it kind of sucks the life outta the room and you have all the right [00:30:00] answers. And so you are basically allowing people to be in your presence, but you are not gonna learn anything from them ’cause you know it all.
And so your ego is just so big, and a lot of times that comes from a very deep insecurity. You talk, you asked me about seven years old, right? When I go get in deep and find out. What happened during that time period from zero to seven, zero to 10? You know, we find why, why there is that deep rooted need to always be right, to never be a failure.
Right? They don’t see failing as just, oops, let’s course correct. Right? They see it as, I am a failure and I will not allow that to happen. And so they lead with an iron fist and. Those are my people. They’re narcissists. [00:31:00] They’re bullies, they are toxic, and many times they are partners. Of firms, many times they are brought in to lead a firm or they’re the founder and CEO many times they’re the chairman of the board or somewhere on the board.
And so I come in and I use neuroscience to basically change that behavior very quickly and sustainably so that we’re working with their mind and creating new pathways so that. They, this is not something that we need to do forever, that it’s actually gonna be long-term. So that’s what I do. I work with them individually and their teams.
Porschia: I love that. And we already know that you are an executive lion tamer from your time in corporate. So I’m sure that you’ve got a great handle on that now. Yes. Yes. You wanna tell us about your, your book?
Carol: Well, yeah, I mean, it, it’s just stories, [00:32:00] real life stories of, you know, celebrity families that I’ve worked with, big humongous companies.
I’ve, and I’ve changed the names to protect mm-hmm. To protect the guilty. Right. But and, but it’s basically, yeah, it’s taming the corporate beasts. And, and you know, it’s interesting because most people are like, well, you know, a lot of these people, they don’t wanna work on themselves. They don’t even know that they’re the problem.
How do you even get them to open up? And the truth is, which you probably know, is that they’re in so much pain that when I get in front of them, I just need 10 minutes, 15 at the most to get them to a place where they’re like, yes, please. And so yeah. So it’s, it’s just really inter and I love it, right?
The harder the case, the more I salivate. Mm-hmm. Yes. I’m so excited.
Porschia: So, yeah. Yes. Love that. Love that. So Carol, we’ll be providing a link to your website and other social channels in our show notes so people can find you [00:33:00] online. Now I wanna ask you my final question that I ask. All of our guests. How do you think executives or professionals can get a positive edge in their career?
Carol: I think, I don’t know that this is gonna be a unique answer, but I know that the only way that my clients and myself get an edge is by learning. Literally always feeling like there’s something more to learn. There’s something to learn from every interaction that you have, every client that you have, every employee that you, that you employ, every, everybody, every book that you can read.
Every podcast that you can listen to. That’s why I love your podcast. And thank you for having it for, for leaders and I think it’s really needed. I, I think it’s that, I think that the minute that we become a closed system and we’re [00:34:00] like, yeah, we’re good, that’s when we start to deteriorate. And we are not getting better at our craft and not, and, and worse, we’re not helping others.
Because we are not getting better. Right. That’s what it’s all about in the end.
Porschia: Well, Carol, you have shared a lot of wisdom with us today. I’m sure that our listeners can use it to be more confident with their culture transformations and in their careers. We appreciate you being with us. Thank
Carol: you. Thank you for having me.
Porschia: This episode was brought to you by the Brave Bird Career Alliance, the go-to membership designed for seasoned executives and ambitious professionals with everything you need for career planning, strategy, training, and support. Thank you again for listening to the Career 1 0 1 podcast. I [00:35:00] hope you have at least one key takeaway that you.
Can use in your own career. If you enjoyed hanging out with us, please rate, subscribe, and share this podcast. Until next time, here’s to your success.
